There are two points I would like to make a comment on.

There are two points I would like to make a comment on. The first is about correcting mistakes. We often hear that the best / most natural (I know Penny's reservations about "authenticity") way of learning a language is the way it is acquired in L1. But during the thousands of hours of meaningful, contextual input, there is also an immense amount of correction taking place, as anyone could testify who has ever listened to the "motherese" going on between a 3-year-old and their mum on the tram...

The second comment concerns translation. I think that, especially for languages that are close to English, for example, Spanish, it would be a shame not to point out the similarities: "This is my house" - "Esta es mi casa." Obviously, as soon as we insert an adjective, the word order does not correspond to each other (is "to each other" a tautology or just redundancy, Penny?) any more, but that is not a reason why we should not alert students to the similarities. This would not work in Hungarian, for example, because in that language we say: "This the I house-my."

Comments

  1. Penny UrNovember 20, 2017 at 8:29 PM

    About natural language acquisition - yes, it's best, but only if you have an appropriate situation (total immersion, or at least a number of hours a day in a target-language speaking environment), but not possible in a situation where you're getting 3-5 hours a week of English lessons in an environment where the mother tongue prevails.
    Translation: I think it's most useful where the mother tongue actually differs from the target language, so you can point out the differences to make the learner aware of interference-based 'traps' into which they might fall if they don't know about them. Like the fact that English inserts the verb 'is' in the Hungarian sentence you mention! (Apart from other obvious differences in the expression of possession!).

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  2. Claudie GNovember 21, 2017 at 4:59 AM

    Penny Ur With Spanish ( for example) sometimes there are "false cognates"...so translation is tricky..

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  3. Elizabeth BekesNovember 21, 2017 at 12:43 PM

    Natural language acquisition is not realistic in 90% of learning situations (EFL especially). I simply wanted to make the point that correction occurs abundantly under natural circumstances, too. As for translation, my experience has been that the similarities between English and Spanish help my learners, and we can use them as a springboard to focus on what is different. False friends like the classic "embarazada" and "embarrassed" need to be pointed out early on, but the overlap is there in colloqual language and even more so in academic English. Vocabulary learning is definitely helped by cognates and I often work on the systematic differences in word formation: sensibility - sensibilidad, etc.

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  4. Phil BrownNovember 22, 2017 at 7:59 AM

    Thanks for raising the point about (natural ) L1 natural vs L2 acquisition. In addition, I thought it worth remembering how many hours of listening babies do before they produce or attempt to produce words, not to mention all the babbling beforehand that is typically met with ridiculous amounts (in a good way) of praise, enthusiasm and encouragement. Mistakes are the norm and are quite literally celebrated for the first few years. In SLA, of course, students typically have quite different experiences ;-)

    So, Penny Ur's previous Week 1 suggestion not to expect production from learners and let them just listen then later speak when they are ready, also seems much more in tune with this and how students might feel about speaking, especially if they are feeling shyer and/or more nervous. At the same time, when one is teaching an oral communication course with a need for some kind of assessment, one also knows that some students may take too long to get their feet wet unless they are nudged if not pushed ;-)

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  5. Jelena RuzicNovember 23, 2017 at 4:10 AM

    I would also like to comment on this moment of empathy - some students carry different traumas from strict teachers in school and they simply need more time to relax and start speaking in English. I believe we should give them some time, let them relax and learn to trust us and the success will follow for sure. If that means allowing a bit more L1 - then so be it!

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  6. Elizabeth BekesNovember 23, 2017 at 3:07 PM

    Jelena, that's for sure. I find that students open up a bit more when they have an urge to say something, whether it is sharing a personal story or a personal opinion. I can remember an occasion back in Hungary when I showed the film "One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest" to my young adult learners. They were so keen on sharing how they felt about the film and its heroes that they "forgot" about their linguistic limitations... :-)

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